Let us chat about Desktop Publishing on the QL

Anything QL Software or Programming Related.
User avatar
tofro
QL Wafer Drive
Posts: 1638
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:53 pm
Location: SW Germany

Re: Let us chat about Desktop Publishing on the QL

Postby tofro » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:18 pm

Pre-1990 systems/OS had the huge disadvantage that there was no common printer model/driver architecture built into them. So, every application had to come with their own printer drivers (for any model in the market, which was a huuuuge task).

Today, most printers aren't even intelligent enough to print a single page of pure text without heavy support from the computer. That makes it a bit hard to find a suitable printer to fit the old QL and a modern computer the like - Most QL users will neither have the space nor the hobby money to spare for a dedicated QL printer (Even if 9-pin Epson dot matrix printers compatible with the QL can still be bought for reasonable prices)

Tobias


ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ ǝq oʇ ƃuᴉoƃ ʇou sᴉ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ʇxǝu ʎɯ 'ɹɐǝp ɥO
RWAP
RWAP Master
Posts: 2643
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Stone, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Let us chat about Desktop Publishing on the QL

Postby RWAP » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:28 pm

Just to add a little more to the discussion....

I have been talking with Fred Toussi about Text87 and releasing the sources for his printer drivers etc later this year...

The answer to the lack of a modern printer for the QL will be the Retro-Printer (www.retroprinter.com) - you just need to ensure that any DTP package supports Epson ESC/P2 format... :D


User avatar
SinclairSociety
Bent Pin Expansion Port
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:17 pm

Re: Let us chat about Desktop Publishing on the QL

Postby SinclairSociety » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:11 am

RWAP wrote:Just to add a little more to the discussion....

I have been talking with Fred Toussi about Text87 and releasing the sources for his printer drivers etc later this year...

The answer to the lack of a modern printer for the QL will be the Retro-Printer (http://www.retroprinter.com) - you just need to ensure that any DTP package supports Epson ESC/P2 format... :D


For me a standardized mouse and pointer that can move forward with the QL is more important... in my opinion.

At least we could always save a print job and print elsewhere if needed but doing real work on a QL with a mouse would be nice.

Of course I don't know enough about the QL yet... but do see so far from my limited time here that mice and QL don't seem to have a common solution that one can buy today that works for many apps... kind of surprising to me.

TJ


Sinclair Computers are AWESOME!!
RWAP
RWAP Master
Posts: 2643
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Stone, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Let us chat about Desktop Publishing on the QL

Postby RWAP » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:03 am

OK my views on Mice.

I am a programmer by nature and a mouse gets in the way to some extent. None of the desktop publishing software for the QL was mouse driven (except for one - Publishing OffICE by Eidersoft which used the iCE mouse). The lack of any real graphical desktop system on the QL probably also affected this - it was a long time before QDT came out and then that was never finished and did not work on a real QL (it needs high colour drivers).

QIMI was probably the most widely used mouse system, coupled with the Pointer Environment (although it could also control the cursor keys if you wish). The problem here is that it used BUS mice, which are now hard to find

SuperHermes had a dedicated (slower) serial port for mice. A great idea, but expensive if you only wanted a mouse, and Tony Firshman has not managed to make any working units recently (he has tried!)

The serial mouse driver (Joachim Hassler?) - I only became aware of this when I could install SMSQ/e on a Gold Card system - it is a great system, but you do ideally need Minerva and Hermes to support different BAUD rates on the QL serial ports - otherwise using a mouse and a printer at the same time was problematic (from memory).

Over the years there were also
- DIY Toolkit (Mouse) which was good, but again relied on the serial ports and was harder to get working
- Smiling Mouse - I have no experience of this and have never seen a unit anywhere, so guess it did not sell in big numbers
- MiCE (by Eidersoft) - an easy to use desktop but was limited by the small number of programs ever written to use with it...


User avatar
NormanDunbar
Aurora
Posts: 770
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Contact:

Re: Let us chat about Desktop Publishing on the QL

Postby NormanDunbar » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:29 am

Morning Rich,

RWAP wrote:I have been talking with Fred Toussi about Text87 and ...


Ok, how the hell did you manage that? Fred is (or was) working with the Firebird Foundation (firebirdsql.org)some time ago when I last contacted him about Text87, all he replied to me was "yes, I am Fred Toussi of Text87 fame" and no further information. :(

Cheers,
Norm.

PS. At least I think it was Firebird!


Why do they put lightning conductors on churches?
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving!
If you think your job is pointless, remember, there's someone in Germany who fits indicators to BMWs.
User avatar
pjw
Super Gold Card
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:44 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Let us chat about Desktop Publishing on the QL

Postby pjw » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:43 am

In case it wasnt obvious, all the mice I pictured under the mouse survey topic were used on QLs of some ilk.

I started with Eidersoft's ICE, which I didnt much care for as there was no real software for it apart from a mickymouse imitation of GEM. Next, for me, came QIMI + QRAM which were the real deal. QRAM later morphed into the Pointer Environment, or PE. The PE finally made the promise of multitasking come true for all "properly written" programs!

The various serial mouse implementations I tried on my QLs were never very reliable, IIRC, although on my Q60 the serial mouse was fine. After I moved on from QL hardware (Atari ST, MegaSTe and finally PCs) any mouse issues have just gone away: The mouse is always there, and I wouldnt be without! And just to be clear: There is no problem using legacy software along side. PE solves that.

Regarding mice on QL hardware, if you want anything other than a retro museum piece, you need decent software to use it, ie PE. That requires about 40k extra, and ideally, with Hotkeys and all that, about 50-60k. PE application software is also comparatively chubby, and real multitasking dramatically increases memory requirements. So adding a mouse to BBQL is of very little use. Wouldnt the right place to add a mouse to a QL be as part of some expansion RAM? (with a backup solution for those who already have RAM expansion?)


Per
Be wary of large West-Coast corporations bearing gifts!
- Ancient Trojan proverb
RWAP
RWAP Master
Posts: 2643
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Stone, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Let us chat about Desktop Publishing on the QL

Postby RWAP » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:56 am

NormanDunbar wrote:Morning Rich,

RWAP wrote:I have been talking with Fred Toussi about Text87 and ...


Ok, how the hell did you manage that? Fred is (or was) working with the Firebird Foundation (firebirdsql.org)some time ago when I last contacted him about Text87, all he replied to me was "yes, I am Fred Toussi of Text87 fame" and no further information. :(



I have my ways..... We shall see if he releases it - there was of course Text87 Publisher (or something like that....)


User avatar
NormanDunbar
Aurora
Posts: 770
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Contact:

Re: Let us chat about Desktop Publishing on the QL

Postby NormanDunbar » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Good luck.

Cheers,
Norm.


Why do they put lightning conductors on churches?
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving!
If you think your job is pointless, remember, there's someone in Germany who fits indicators to BMWs.
User avatar
SinclairSociety
Bent Pin Expansion Port
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:17 pm

Re: Let us chat about Desktop Publishing on the QL

Postby SinclairSociety » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:43 pm

pjw wrote:Regarding mice on QL hardware, if you want anything other than a retro museum piece, you need decent software to use it, ie PE. That requires about 40k extra, and ideally, with Hotkeys and all that, about 50-60k. PE application software is also comparatively chubby, and real multitasking dramatically increases memory requirements. So adding a mouse to BBQL is of very little use. Wouldnt the right place to add a mouse to a QL be as part of some expansion RAM? (with a backup solution for those who already have RAM expansion?)


Will the Gold Card be enough or even the future #8 QL Board Dave is working on allow mic more easily if using this PE?

At first I will use the QL as it came... but sure in time will want to expand on it and make it more useful too.

TJ


Sinclair Computers are AWESOME!!
User avatar
pjw
Super Gold Card
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:44 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Let us chat about Desktop Publishing on the QL

Postby pjw » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:41 pm

SinclairSociety wrote:
pjw wrote:Will the Gold Card be enough or even the future #8 QL Board Dave is working on allow mic more easily if using this PE?
Amply. When 512k was the best available, I was happy as a pig in poo with that ;)


Per
Be wary of large West-Coast corporations bearing gifts!
- Ancient Trojan proverb

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests