Q68 support thread

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bwinkel67
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Re: Q68 support thread

Postby bwinkel67 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:47 am

I have taken BBQL to mean QL with no extra memory and no acceleration. What internal ROM chips are used I don't think matter as much (so if you have a ROM switcher cord dangling out it wouldn't really change that it's a BBQL). I would also argue BBQL would still have its two micro drives. So basically all the original hardware it came with. It sounds odd to me to say BBQL w/Gold Card as you might as well say QL w/Gold Card (i.e. no longer just the good old BBQL).


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Peter
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Re: Q68 support thread

Postby Peter » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:11 am

bwinkel67 wrote:It sounds odd to me to say BBQL w/Gold Card as you might as well say QL w/Gold Card (i.e. no longer just the good old BBQL).

Fully agreed. The GoldCard even takes the very core of a computer away from the QL motherboard, which is CPU and main RAM.


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Re: Q68 support thread

Postby Derek_Stewart » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:27 am

Hi

I do not use Microdrives, in fact they are removed, so I do not have a BBQL...


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Derek
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Re: Q68 support thread

Postby bwinkel67 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:36 pm

Derek_Stewart wrote:Hi

I do not use Microdrives, in fact they are removed, so I do not have a BBQL...


It's a good point. I guess it's a matter of what one wants BBQL to mean. If all it means is that the top and bottom shell are still there it doesn't provide much distinction and how does it differ from just saying QL on its own? The QL derivatives all have their own name so when one says "I have a QL" vs "I have a BBQL" what is the differentiating factor is what I'm trying to get at? I suppose it could mean that "my setup started with the original QL and I've made modifications" but again, saying "I have a QL with ..." kind of highlights that too.

Since "Black Box" and "Bare Bones" can kind of be used interchangeably to me BBQL has that meaning though at times I still say "unexpanded QL" which is less elegant :-/

But we computing folks love to add confusion with naming so perhaps BBQL is no different :D


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Re: Q68 support thread

Postby Chr$ » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:57 pm

Back to Q68:

I've just been setting up a new SD card and playing around making sure I know how to put container files on it etc. I put the QXL.WIN file from my QXLII onto it (which is a QLE setup but with a few little changes and obviously some different files). I formatted the card with FAT32 for the containers part, put them all on in the correct order, one at a time, no problems there. I then added another partition as the FAT partition as FAT16 as per instructions. At first it wouldn't recognise it at all. I discovered that my FAT16 partition was too large at 2gb! Re-partitioned it to 250mb in size and all is well now.

What is the max size for the FAT16 partition, just out of interest?


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Re: Q68 support thread

Postby Derek_Stewart » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:31 am

HI Chr$,

If you read page 11, Q68 SMSQ/E manual, yyou will find the FAT16 limitations, which are 255Mb, short or 8+3 filenames.

The FAT_DRIVE command can mount FAT16 partition into a FATxx device.

QWA containers or QXL.WIN files, can only be mounted on the FAT32 partition, with the WIN_DRIVE command.

Please the Q68 SMSQ/E manual for more information.

There is a copy of QL/E on the Q68 Distribution SD Card.


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Re: Q68 support thread

Postby Chr$ » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:53 am

Derek_Stewart wrote:HI Chr$,

If you read page 11, Q68 SMSQ/E manual, yyou will find the FAT16 limitations, which are 255Mb.


Must have missed that bit (ah yes, there it is on p11!). Was aware of the rest.


Collector of original and some newer QL related computers, accessories and software even though I don't understand how any of them work.
Original BBQL's: 3x German, 1x UK model (plus quite a bit of other old stuff)
Custom AT cased QL system with Gold Card, Qimi mouse, Hermes and MFM HDD
PC with QXLII card installed
Q68 also present

Ask me about near NOS re-felted good quality Microdrive Carts - many available.
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Re: Q68 support thread

Postby ql_freak » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:23 pm

bwinkel67 wrote:It sounds odd to me to say BBQL w/Gold Card as you might as well say QL w/Gold Card (i.e. no longer just the good old BBQL).


I do not agree. Even a QL with Super GoldCard is IMHO a BBQL. It fully fits into the BBQL and just adds a better processor, Disk-IF, Centronics Port and buffered clock. But it still can run all operating system versions, has the same (not extendable :-) video and other hardware. For e.g. the Amiga there were also processor boards with better processors, these are still real Amigas in my sense.


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Re: Q68 support thread

Postby bwinkel67 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:29 am

ql_freak wrote:I do not agree. Even a QL with Super GoldCard is IMHO a BBQL. It fully fits into the BBQL and just adds a better processor, Disk-IF, Centronics Port and buffered clock. But it still can run all operating system versions, has the same (not extendable :-) video and other hardware. For e.g. the Amiga there were also processor boards with better processors, these are still real Amigas in my sense.


But by that definition "fits into QL" makes anything a BBQL and makes the term rather useless. Why not then just use the shortened "QL" instead (i.e with "Sinclair QL" being the full name)? All other hardware devices (Q40/60, Q68, Thor, etc) have their own names. And the modifier "fully" is a bit of a stretch since a Gold Card does stick out a bit. The only thing that I have that fits fully into a QL is my Kempston disk interface where I could not see it protruding from the front view. So then do you have to gauge "by how much" to make a judgment if it's a BBQL or a QL? I think the term "BBQL" ought to refer to the original machine and then just use "QL" when you refer to an upgraded one otherwise you have BBQL == QL.

With regard to Amigas, the relationship is Amiga to QL not Amiga to BBQL so when someone upgrades their Amiga it is still called an Amiga and when someone upgrades a QL it is still called a QL. We just happen to have a nice 4 letter acronym of BBQL that is floating around (not sure who created it) that we can apply (and in my opinion finds a home by meaning unexpanded QL -- i.e. CPU , RAM, hardware it came with). I don't know if the Amiga folks have anything like that but perhaps they could maybe have BBAmiga for "Beige Box" Amiga or "Bare Bones" Amiga but it doesn't quite ring as nicely as BBQL :-) Now for Commodore 64 they do refer to it sometimes as the "bread bin" model but that is not quite the same, I think, as the use of BBQL. The reason for the "bread bin" designation is that Commodore came out with another, more streamlined, C64 later on, so you have to designate "bread bin" vs not whereas the QL didn't come out in say a grey version with floppy, etc...if that were the case (no pun intended) then BBQL might be useful in another way.


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Re: Q68 support thread

Postby NormanDunbar » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:12 am

I thought "BBQL" was a Bare Bones QL - one with no bits and bobs hanging off of it, or installed internally. (Ok, I'll give you the ROM cartridges!) As in, a QL with 128Kb RAM, two microdrives (working or otherwise) - which is how I've been using the term.

It's quicker than typing "Unexpanded QL" all the time!


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