SMSQE in MisTer

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Tinyfpga
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Re: SMSQE in MisTer

Post by Tinyfpga »

I am curious. Why would do you think TT insists that his ideas are still valid for multi-processor shared memory systems. ( Since there are no multi-processor systems in which his systems can run, this question is moot)

and

Do you think that a closely networked multi-processor multi-memory (not shared) system (OS in each processor/memory combination) can be a viable alternative to the above? (I am currently building a sort-of-such-a-system with Q68s and have built in the past with SMS2)


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NormanDunbar
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Re: SMSQE in MisTer

Post by NormanDunbar »

tinyfpga wrote:By the way I did as I was told and managed to access Norm's site. Is the QDOSSMSQ stuff available as a single document?
Basically, the QL Technical Guide covers everything I do, and much much more. Pdf version at http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/docs/manuals/QD ... 20v4.5.pdf.

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Re: SMSQE in MisTer

Post by mk79 »

Tinyfpga wrote:I am curious. Why would do you think TT insists that his ideas are still valid for multi-processor shared memory systems.
Again, I have no idea.
Do you think that a closely networked multi-processor multi-memory (not shared) system (OS in each processor/memory combination) can be a viable alternative to the above?
Well, to do what?


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Re: SMSQE in MisTer

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Last edited by mk79 on Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Tinyfpga
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Re: SMSQE in MisTer

Post by Tinyfpga »

In my case, for the challenge and amusement of writing application programs in which two or more processors cooperate on a single task. (I am currently using two Q68s. One Q68 is used for calculation, display, keyboard and mouse I/O and the other just calculates.)

I wrote an accounting program for PCs that I am slowly re-writing for SMS. I think that this program is a suitable candidate for multi-processing because it is currently a set of linked but separate programs. The analytical software
could run in one processor and the data entry and display software could run in another. As both Q68s have video output I could of course use two displays to increase the amount of visible information.


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NormanDunbar
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Re: SMSQE in MisTer

Post by NormanDunbar »

If I remember correctly, Perfection, the wordy processor from Digital Precision, used two tasks concurrently. One to fo the editing and another, if I'm not bonkers, to update the status line with mode, line/col positions etc.

Or was it some other program.....?

Regardless, on a QL, both tasks ran on one cpu, if such a thing as a multi-processor QL existed, they could have a cpu each -- but would obviously need critical sections in the code to stop race conditions.

Just an early morning, pre-coffee thought. :D

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Re: SMSQE in MisTer

Post by Derek_Stewart »

Tinyfpga wrote:In my case, for the challenge and amusement of writing application programs in which two or more processors cooperate on a single task. (I am currently using two Q68s. One Q68 is used for calculation, display, keyboard and mouse I/O and the other just calculates.)

I wrote an accounting program for PCs that I am slowly re-writing for SMS. I think that this program is a suitable candidate for multi-processing because it is currently a set of linked but separate programs. The analytical software
could run in one processor and the data entry and display software could run in another. As both Q68s have video output I could of course use two displays to increase the amount of visible information.
This sounds interesting, how do you connect the two Q68 computer, Ethernet or QL Net?

How do you synchronise the scheduler on each machine?

If the programme runs on the same machine, then it is not a problem.


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Re: SMSQE in MisTer

Post by Peter »

Tinyfpga wrote:(I am currently using two Q68s. One Q68 is used for calculation, display, keyboard and mouse I/O and the other just calculates.)
The Qzero has two completely separate SDRAMs, so a loosely coupled dual core SMSQ/E machine like this, basically two QLs on one chip, would be feasible.
My idea was to couple them by one or more extremely fast pipes, but QLNET with the low level replaced, could also make sense. Would such a dual core make sense?

Of course a mechnism to handle keyboard, mouse and storage is also needed. In the most primitive case, a hotkey with switches keyboard/mouse/video. And the second core would live from a ROM filesystem (onboard SPI Flash) rather than SD card.


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Re: SMSQE in MisTer

Post by NormanDunbar »

NormanDunbar wrote:If I remember correctly, Perfection, the wordy processor from Digital Precision, used two tasks concurrently. One for the editing and another, if I'm not bonkers, to update the status line with mode, line/col positions etc.
I was close! There's a secondary task named "PERFECTION Cleanup" which runs separately to Perfection itself. Could be the garbage collector.

Cheers,
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Re: SMSQE in MisTer

Post by Tinyfpga »

As mentioned in an earlier post in this topic, I don't know what I am talking about. Read mk78's responses to my feeble attempt to describe an atomic operating system. I then used Norm's link to the QL Technical Guide and read the page titled "Introduction to QDOS/SMS/SMSQE".

Something about this page seemed familiar and it prompted me to look through some old SMS2 documentation I have on floppies. I found a file titled "Introduction to SMS2". I don't know who wrote it but it reads like TT's documentation. It describes SMS2 as an "atomic operating system" in some detail. (4 pages no less!). On re-reading the document it seems that it was an introduction to a programmer's manual for SMS2. I will see if I can find the rest of it.

It was full of errors ( I think it may have been OCR-ed), so I edited it as a word text document and include it below:-
Introduction to SMS2.zip
(8.99 KiB) Downloaded 82 times
Since SMSQE is more or less SMS2 with the BASIC interpreter added, the description may be largely true for SMSQE.

Replying to Derek's post:- The Q68s are connected with an Ethernet cable and I have no idea what synchronising the schedulers means. My test system works and when I have a clearer idea of what I have done I will post details of my setup in a new topic. (I am recreational programmer only) The programs run on separate machines.

It was the observation, in some earlier posts, that the Qzero could be configured as a dual core SMSQ/E machine that prompted me to ask MK what he thought of the idea.
I don't know what a fast pipe is. If it is a fast serial communication link then I think a fast pipe coupled dual core Qzero makes a lot of sense. It is a marvelous idea. If this link can be made available for connecting other Qzeros then you will have created something like TT's lego system that he proposed thirty years ago as a post QL system.
Last edited by Tinyfpga on Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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