Transfer data between Windows and QL using CF Card with QL Tetroid disk interface

[Andrew]

All right, but how do you do with files larger than 127Kb ? In QL www archives there are a lot of them.

I have never encountered a file larger than 127k. Archives, yes, but not single file.
So I just unzipped them and copied files to mdv. It's time consuming, though.
The QL file server seems a better solution.

[badaman]

Hi all,
To this post I attach a pdf file describing my findings for using the Habi Image editor for managing CF chips for my Tetroid interface.
POLKaman_habi.pdf

Good contribution. I leave here the link to the page where the Habi program is. In "Tutorials" there is step-by-step information (in English) for the use of the program.

QubIDE interface

There you can find:

- QubIDE installation.
- Handle zip files with "Image Editor" software.
- Handle img files with "Image Editor" software.
- Handle files with "Image Editor" software.
- Using "Image Editor" software in Linux (wine).

[polka]

Yes, but I would not recommand these tutorials, they don't explain very well what to do and moreover WHY !
They don't distinguish between the files that already have a header (that should be inserted with Options>Headers>None ?) and those that have one (that should be inserted with Options>Headers>QL ?) ; and the "Handle" tutorial for "zip" files is exactly the same as the one for "files", and does not distinguish where the zipped files come from : extracted from a QL disc, they have a header, from www archives they don't.
POLKa

[Chr$]

I've had problems with the Habi imaging thing too. I have an image that I was able to write to a different CF card. No problems there, the real QL was fine with it. But when I tried to extract _exe files to use with a QXLII card it didn't like it at all. With the header option I saw that the files were exactly 64 bytes larger, but they still didn't work (header path/info looked odd). Still had the bad parameter error. They didn't work with QemuLator either. So the header is not right - perhaps I didn't image the CF card properly. I will try again, but can't be bothered at the moment as it always takes so long. I'll probably do it all over a QLNET with FSERVE.

[badaman]

Polka and Chr$, Thanks for the info. It is good to know these facts.

[polka]

Here the results of systematic tests concerning these issues for three types of files :

Code: Select all

Data file extracted then inserted
       933  |  NE_NI_a2_min             | no header     | NO ! data ok for emulators
       997  |  NE_QI_a2_min             | fake header   | data ok for QL
       997  |  QE_NI_a2_min             | true header   | data ok for QL
      1061  |  QE_QI_a2_min             | double header | NO !

Executable extracted then inserted
      7836  |  NE_NI_QED                | no header     | NO ! NOT EVEN on emulators
      7900  |  NE_QI_QED                | fake header   | NO !
      7900  |  QE_NI_QED                | true header   | executes on QL
      7964  |  QE_QI_QED                | double header | NO !

Zipped file extracted then inserted
      1676  |  NE_NI_DBANAL_zip         | no header     | NO ! unzips on emulators
      1740  |  NE_QI_DBANAL_zip         | fake header   | unzips on QL
      1740  |  QE_NI_DBANAL_zip         | true header   | unzips on QL
      1804  |  QE_QI_DBANAL_zip         | double header | NO !

Zipped file from "The Distribution" DVD
      1217  |  TD_NI_direxists_zip      | no header     | NO ! unzips on emulators
      1281  |  TD_QI_direxists_zip      | fake header   | unzips on QL

Zipped file from www archive
      1217  |  DJ_NI_direxists_zip      | no header     | NO ! unzips on emulators
      1281  |  DJ_QI_direxists_zip      | fake header   | unzips on QL

data files : my example is a simple text file (but quill docs etc. behave the same way)
exec files : my example is the QED text editor (same as any files runnig with EXEC etc. commands)
zipped files considering three different origins :
- correct zip file on CF chip 1/ extracted 2/ reinserted
- zip file coming from "The Distribution" DVD
- zip file coming from the Dilwyn Jones QL archive

For the three first types : the test files are prefixed with
- NE meaning they were extracted with Options>Headers>Extract UNCHECKED
- QE meaning they were extracted with Options>Headers>Extract CHECKED
- NI meaning they were then inserted with Options>Headers>None
- QI meaning they were then inserted with Options>Headers>QL
for the zip files "coming from..." NE or QE are replaced by
- TD meaning they come from "The Distribution" DVD
- DJ meaning they come from the Dilwyn Jones archive

On the results table :
- first column : size
- second column : name
- third column : my diagnostic
- fourth column : consequences

I did not test how the binaries loaded with RESPR commands would behave (I guess they are considered as data files)

For me the most straitforward way to transfer a QL executable (or any other file) from/to an emulator store on PC and a CF chip on tetroid card is through a QL formatted floppy - actually, the tetroid card has a plug for 720K floppy devices but the PC must accept this kind of floppies.

POLKa

[Chr$]

Good testing work Polka.

In my case I was trying to extract files from the .img file, writing them to floppy disk and then running them on my QXLII machine. I was mainly concerned with the problematic _exe files because the others seem to work, for obvious reasons. And I too had the same problem, i.e. _exe files would not work on the QXLII (or Qemulator) no matter how I extracted them from the .img. The QXLII can also read MS-DOS disks and I tried putting the _exe file on both an MS-DOS formatted disk and a QDOS formatted disk. But I may well have created the .img file with Options>Headers>Extract UNCHECKED option, in which case it won't work at all and that would explain it!

Another slightly annoying feature is the way it converts program_exe to program.exe. Not that I'm knocking it, the Habi image utility is an excellent way of backing up the contents of a QL CF card in case it goes wrong.

For users with a TDI I think the best way to get files to a real QL is by inserting the QL-Zip files onto the Habi image and then unzipping them on the QL. I did that with hundreds of zip files and then made a SuperBasic program to facilitate selecting and unzipping them to organised directories (it's bad and there are probably better ways of doing it). Also very time consuming and to be honest, a lot of the software isn't that great, or at least not all that useable/playable nowadays - and of course to run them from WIN1 you have to play around with them a bit as the boot files are all set for MDV1 or FLP1 and some have hardcoded paths.

Moving stuff around from 3.5" disk in a PC running Qemulator then to the QL is excellent for the odd file but is also time consuming.

Because both my source (BBQL) and target (QXLII) are QLNET capable, I at least have that luxury! Although I haven't tried it yet because the machines are in different rooms.

[polka]

But I may well have created the .img file with Options>Headers>Extract UNCHECKED option, in which case it won't work at all and that would explain it!

Actually, the Options>Header>... items are only important for extracting or inserting files. For reading a CF into an image or writing back an image onto a CF, these options are unimportant, because these operations are on RAW (bitwize) mass-storage content.

For users with a TDI I think the best way to get files to a real QL is by inserting the QL-Zip files onto the Habi image and then unzipping them on the QL.

But then you have to copy the image back on the CF ? You can do this directly on the CF chip, instead of opening an image : use Disc > Open disc instead of File > Open image . I make Habi images only for rare ( I hope ! ) backups.

I haven't tried it yet because the machines are in different rooms

Sorry !

POLKa

[Chr$]

But then you have to copy the image back on the CF ? You can do this directly on the CF chip, instead of opening an image : use Disc > Open disc instead of File > Open image . I make Habi images only for rare ( I hope ! ) backups.

Does that also take many hours to open, or is it quicker than full imaging?

I wonder what is wrong with how I do things then if the imaging settings are irrelevant.

[polka]

But then you have to copy the image back on the CF ? You can do this directly on the CF chip, instead of opening an image : use Disc > Open disc instead of File > Open image . I make Habi images only for rare ( I hope ! ) backups.

Does that also take many hours to open, or is it quicker than full imaging?

To open a CF takes not much longer than to open an image (a few seconds). To insert files into a CF is not very long either. What takes time is to copy an image to a CF (write) or to backup a CF to an image (read) : approx 45 minutes for 1Gb with my hardware. Because it copies a huge amount of data compared to simply insert (or extract) a file.

I wonder what is wrong with how I do things then if the imaging settings are irrelevant.

In any case via the Habi software, you can only share data files between a QL with a CF and an emulator (zip files are a kind of data files). When putting data files from CF to PC emulator, just make sure that it is without a header. And from PC emulator to CF, make sure that a "fake" header is added - see how to do, pondering my man-habi doc a few posts up. This counts only when extracting or inserting files not when reading CF or writing img.

POLKa