ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

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Sparrowhawk
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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by Sparrowhawk »

QLvsJAGUAR wrote: Relating this thread, yes Metacomco had an eye on the QL’s SuperBASIC while developing ST BASIC for ATARI Corporation and yes, even they did BASIC interpreters before ST BASIC and knew the QL and its SuperBASIC quite well, they failed to create something big, something flexible and something expandable as the QL’s SuperBASIC. Even bundled with the ATARI ST computers, ST BASIC was gradually superseded by much more powerful BASIC systems such as GFA BASIC.
Many thanks for answering my initial query, Urs. Insightful, as ever.


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by NormanDunbar »

Brane2 wrote:Trying to be nice to people is pointless.
Ah, well, being nice to people is a requirement for being a member of this forum. If you don't play nice, the forum moderators will find you and slap your legs!

If you still won't play nice, your time here is limited.

Now, that doesn't mean that you cannot have a constructive discussion and argue your point of view robustly. However, in order to put ones point over convincingly, one must provide facts. Not opinions, facts.

You don't like any form of BASIC, that's fine. Other people do, that's equally fine.

You can't think of any useful SuperBASIC applications, I gave you a list, they were useful. Maybe not to you, judging by your response as "meeeh", but you are not the only QL fan on this forum, and lots of people have and do find them useful.

This latter fact negates your opinion than there were no useful SuperBASIC applications. You have provided zero facts to back up your opinion, and it only needs one person to say that they found any one single SuperBASIC application useful, to prove you wrong.

That has been done. Now, IF you are still of the opinion that no such useful application exists and never has. That's fine. This is now called wilful ignorance. Your position on the matter has been proven wrong, but you insist on sticking to it regardless. This is bordering on religion now, and we all know how that usually turns out!

Please continue with your hardware thread, it's obviously useful and informative and looks to be a good discussion. It is of zero interest to me personally, but I still read it. I might learn something. Maybe not, I might be too old! What I'm not going to do is jump in and tell everyone my opinion that hardware on the QL is totally shit -- because I would be proven wrong almost instantly.

The scientific method is pretty good, it works, it helps advance knowledge. The wishy washy woo shit that prevails on so called social media is a backward step, and should be consigned to the deepest bowels of whatever Hell's exist. Along with conspiracy theories, flat earthers and moon landing deniers, anti maskers and anti vaxers.

So, let's all be nice.

Cheers,
Norm. (Forum moderator.)


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by pjw »

NormanDunbar wrote:<>
Cheers,
Norm. (Forum moderator.)
I didnt know that. Is it true? (Id better watch my step then, I guess. Wouldnt want my nose rubbed in it..)


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by bwinkel67 »

pjw wrote: You werent by any chance thinking of these articles from QL Toady TTos.zip? (The link is just to the download page.) A great read! From those it seems more like Tony Tebby was trying to escape from Unix, MSDOS, and the rest, rather than make a better Unix.
Yup, that's the source I was referring to...great read.


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by NormanDunbar »

Brane2 wrote:THis is why Linux has elf - "eXecutable and Linkable File" format.
Invented in the early 1990s. QL invented in the early 1980s.
Brane2 wrote:After reset, make QL boot from any media where it could boot from, be it SER port, NET. MDV or any other device it could reach at boot.
The QL boots first from a device called "boot", then if that's not found, from a file named "boot" on the first directory device it finds one on.
Brane2 wrote:To dot the "i", QL would get Vector base in RAM, so all the vectors would be free to redirect and not poured over with concrete, like in
actual machine.
The exception vectors can be changed for each individual job. In assembly language but not in SuperBASIC.


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by XorA »

NormanDunbar wrote:
Brane2 wrote:THis is why Linux has elf - "eXecutable and Linkable File" format.
Invented in the early 1990s. QL invented in the early 1980s.
I remember Linux pre ELF :-D


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by NormanDunbar »

Brane2 wrote:THis is why Linux has elf - "eXecutable and Linkable File" format.
Invented in the early 1990s. QL invented in the early 1980s.
Brane2 wrote:After reset, make QL boot from any media where it could boot from, be it SER port, NET. MDV or any other device it could reach at boot.
The QL boots first from a device called "boot", then if that's not found, from a file named "boot" on the first directory device it finds one on.
Brane2 wrote:To dot the "i", QL would get Vector base in RAM, so all the vectors would be free to redirect and not poured over with concrete, like in
actual machine.
The exception vectors can be changed for each individual job. In assembly language but not in SuperBASIC.
Brane2 wrote:Look where PC DOS started and where it ended. Latest DOS 5.xx are MASSIVELY better than DOS 1.x.
JS was miles better than AH. (ROM versions).
Brane2 wrote:It's even more pronounced with Windows. What would happen with them if they were baked in ROM ?
Given the archtecture of PCs back in the day -- which was after the QL -- I'm sure these hypothetical ROMs would be upgradeable or replaceable. After all, my old OC allowed me to update the BIOS versions.
Brane2 wrote:No one really cares how fast does PC boot.
Wrong! I care. My Linux laptop still takes too long to boot up. Even with an SSD fitted. I hate waiting.
Brane2 wrote:Constantly agreeing with every idea just to feel "safe" and "within one's group"
You don't have to always agree. Life would be pretty crap if everyone agreed all the time. Just disagree based on facts, not opinions.
Brane2 wrote:WRT to SUperAsic, even without looking at particular implementation, whole basic as "entry into computing" idea was bad. And it was cascaded with anyother bad idea "it has to be in ROM".
In your opinion. Which is fine. RAM was expensive back in 1982-83. ROMs were a way to get (almost) instant on and ready to run. Floppies were 8" monstrosities and cost the Earth to buy. Hard drives? Don't even go there!
Brane2 wrote:Detecting an idea that turned to be bad does not equal personally attacking people involved.
With the hindsight of nearly 40 years of progress, maybe some ideas were bad, but at the time they were most likely the best option given whatever constraints the engineers were working under.
Brane2 wrote:Had it had even rudimentary modem, QL users could update his/her SW over the phone line.
Back in 1982-3 modems cost a f*cking fortune. And were slow. 1200/75 for eg. I was using them at work on mainframes FFS! Plus, BT charged an extortionate price per minute "on line" -- that's what monopolies do. Only the very rich (or businesses) couldvafford them.
Brane2 wrote:I have to care about staying alive.
Depopulation wave is roaming across (especially) South and East EU.
MANY accidental deaths, deaths in sleep, "cancers", outright dissapearances etcetc.
FFS.
Brane2 wrote:They took one great idea that made the QL and are trying to use it to coast through the sea of mistakes.
Which good idea?


Cheers,
Norm.


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by NormanDunbar »

Hmmm, weird stuff going on with posting. Seems I've got half a post somehow in addition to the full one.

Cheers,
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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by NormanDunbar »

pjw wrote:I didnt know that. Is it true? (Id better watch my step then, I guess. Wouldnt want my nose rubbed in it..)
Yes, it's true. It says so under my username to the left of my posts. Having said that, I don't need my moderator's hat too often.

Cheers,
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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by NormanDunbar »

Moderators Were Here!

This discussion is now way off the original topic. Take it to viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3856 if you have anything useful to say.

Otherwise, the rest of this thread is for ST Basic's QDOS inspiration.

Any other off topic replies here will, most likely, be binned.

Cheers,
Norm.


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