Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

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StarshipUK
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Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by StarshipUK »

Following on from this thread:
http://qlforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1479

I now have a Sinclair QL, a Trump Card and a Gotek with HxC firmware. I have managed to get a couple of HXE games to load that I was sent to test.

I have also bought a registered copy of the Qemulator software to be able to transfer ZIP to floppy images to start converting games myself.

I have so far only tried two - Spook and QL Hopper.

Spook seems to load and work without problems. However when loading QL Hopper it tries to load from the microdrive instead and then displays an error: "At line 20 not found".

I know nothing about QL coding, but am guessing I need to edit something in the BOOT file to get this to load from the gotek floppy. If anyone can help I would be grateful.

As a test I opened both boot files on my PC with notepad and changed MDV1 to FLP1 like this:

Boot:
5 MODE 8
10 a=RESPR(66000)
20 LBYTES flp1_hopper,229376
22 LBYTES flp1_pic,196608
30 POKE 229375,1
40 CALL 229376

Boot1:
1 LBYTES flp1_pic,131072
10 a=RESPR(66000):LBYTES flp1_pic,196608
20 LBYTES flp1_hopper,229376
30 POKE 229375,2:CALL 229376

However I am then just getting a command prompt in a QL screen and no error and it does not load the game. I am guessing there is more to this I need to learn about and any help passing on knowledge would be grateful.


RWAP
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by RWAP »

It has been many years since I converted Hopper to run from disk - it might be that you have a typo in your boot (does flp1_hopper exist on the HxC image and is it named correctly in the boot)?

It may well be that the machine code program file itself then loads something else from microdrive / disk, so has to be edited too.

If you can provide proof of ownership of an original copy of QL Hopper I can send you the disk version for £1.


StarshipUK
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by StarshipUK »

Yes the files are there:
backup
Boot
boot1
hopper
pic

This question is not about buying a working copy of this, but I have obtained over 100 QL game files, quite illegally, although I believe your stance on the copyright issue is somewhat just personal due to risk of being personally sued (very unlikely for an obsolete system which very few people care about nowadays, but that's my personal opinion). Yes I could easily obtain fake proof that I own these games, but I am not going to do that.

I want to know how I convert these games to work myself, if its just a case of editing a few script (boot) files. If you are trying to promote the system (rather than just make a profit out of it) then I do not see any issue with making the working scripts or knowledge available to all.

I have already asked you if you would sell images in the game packs and you only sell disks or locked windows versions which is no good to me and no help for what I want to do and I expect others will want to do in the future. It also don't help that many games are impossible to buy original ANYWHERE. I can understand why so many people have avoided the machine and why it is never seen at any retro gaming events. I somewhat regret even getting involved with it myself at times, but have continued on anyway, seeing it as a challenge and it has been one of the most difficult systems to operate and gain information for that I have encountered.

So far I have tried 26 games and about 14 have worked without any modifications. The other 12 seem to error mostly after tried to access the microdrive to load from that instead of the disk.

At the end of the day I doubt I will personally play many of the games myself apart from testing, but I want to take the machine to events to use the system there and to let others enjoy using it and playing some of the better games on it. If no one is going to help me on this then I will just make do with what does work without modification - Not ideal but this is not the most open community when other people are trying to help by promoting the system.


RWAP
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by RWAP »

As you have found, converting microdrive software to work from disk (or disk images) is not easy.

There are various options:
a) Buy a legitimate disk version of the software, so that the original copyright holder receives a royalty in recognition of their work!
b) Create a single disk image per game and edit the boot file to say FLP_USE mdv before it tries to load from microdrive
c) Look for references to mdv in the boot file and ALL files loaded by the game and convert them to FLP
d) If the program has copy protection which still prevents it from loading, or uses some other routine to load extra files, then you will need to alter the machine code in the program to bypass the copy protection and change the location of the files it loads
e) Rather than asking others to breach copyright or provide support for software which has been obtained in breach of copyright, you should go back to the original supplier and ask for support

I could supply HxC images of the box-sets, but you are the only person to have asked about these - probably because the HxC format is not very common on the QL, so it is hardly worth my time. You could always purchase the box-set and then use q-emulator to copy the disks into a disk image and convert it to HxC disk format yourself.

As for original software - I guess you mean games here which were supplied at the time in microdrive cases - there is quite a lot out there, but where it is listed, it generally does not have a working microdrive cartridge (and in my opinion is massively over-priced for basically a plastic wallet with a broken microdrive cartridge). A lot of the software after about 1986 was supplied on disk only and rarely with anything more than a simple A4 stapled printed manual, let alone any form of box.

I have a limited amount of original software cases, but very few games now - when I get chance I have been re-recording the software onto repaired microdrive cartridges but it is a slow process. There is some listed on sellmyretro.com
Last edited by RWAP on Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:02 am, edited 2 times in total.


Derek_Stewart
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by Derek_Stewart »

Hi,

I read most of this and do not under why everyone wanted everything for nothing.

Software is hard to develop and why I think many QL programmers have left the scene due to no reward for the hard work.

Or do we all work for nothing.


Regards,

Derek
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by RWAP »

Derek_Stewart wrote:Hi,

I read most of this and do not under why everyone wanted everything for nothing.

Software is hard to develop and why I think many QL programmers have left the scene due to no reward for the hard work.

Or do we all work for nothing.
Let's not turn this into yet another discussion over copyright - it is not good for my health or for the QL


StarshipUK
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by StarshipUK »

Here are the games which are not working:

3D Labyrinth
3D Slime
AJ Venture
Baron Rouge
Billy Bounder
BJ3D
Blindo
Block Wall
bounder
Breakout
Claire
Crazy Painter
Diamonds
FireBirds
Frogger
Froggy
Frogling
Galatic Invaders
harry
Hungry Harry
Hurry basic
King
Knight Flight
Labyrinth
M-Cosmic
M-Crunch
Masterblaster
Mazes
Maze Basic
Mission X
Night Nurse
Pacman
Paladin
Pingo
Pirate Island
QBall
QBert
QL Cavern
QL Hopper
QL Jabber
Ql Tron
QlBert
QLTris PE
QSlam
QTron
Quazimodo
Quobbl
Skyburst
Sokoban
Space Paranoids
Space
Space Invader
Space Pods
Splash
Starburst
Star Guard
Tunnel Panic
Wanderer
Werner
Zapman

I have yet to try any modifications to the boot file. I am hoping some simple mods may solve the issues on some games, but now need to find out what ones have fixes available already rather than spending time re-inventing the wheel. The game packs are no good to me as they contain weird combinations of games, and I am only interested in the most playable arcade games that would be suitable to play at gaming events. No board games, simulators or games which need involvement such as RPGs.

I also noticed some of the working games appear to run stupidly fast. I am unsure if this is due to the Trump Card somehow speeding the machine up, and if so there is some way to slow down the machine so games run at correct speed.

My situation is slightly different in that this is not for my own personal use, but so this can be used at retro gaming events. Do you expect me to check every person that sits down to play a game on the machine that they personally own a copy of the game on 1985 QL microdrive cartridge? Quite simply if it is recent homebrew and good quality, fair enough I respect that - sell it as that is what happens on other platforms. What we are talking about is games from 30 years back for a obsolete machine. I think its safe to say that if you have not easily made contact with the original programmers by now and no one has stepped forward to claim they still want to enforce their copyright its safe to say they are either dead or have moved on and can't be arsed to worry about games they made 30 years back for a limited market in return for a few pennies. Some threads I have read have stated that as few as two copies of some games have been found on original microdrive, which I expect may eventually be lost forever with all the so called preservation projects actually being private collections. If I do end up buying original microdrives for games then its not going to be the original programmers that benefit from the money. It will just be the private individual reselling the game that makes the money, some of which are being advertised for sale for some obscene amounts. Thats my issue here. I would quite happily send the original programmers pockets with gold, but not the money grabbing thieves on Ebay trying to sell a 30 year old game of average quality for more than it originally sold for. I am not a collector, but someone who likes to share.

I expect most QL programmers left the scene because its an obsolete system and they moved on in life to the modern world and bigger and better things which will pay the bills. I expect even those still programming for the machine are only doing it as a hobby and not their full time job. Some people do things for free without issues as there is much recent homebrew on other systems that have been released for free. Heck I have even been playing a recent PC game with a fantastic graphics mod that took the bloke who released it over a year to develop and then he released freely. Others expect reward for everything and then wonder why people are not prepared to pay for it when they do not think it is worth it for a game written 30 years back, with the quality of 30 years back and not even for their own personal use. I do not make money from taking these systems to games events, and sometimes don't even break even. It costs me money, and with the amount I have already spent of this system, the fact I am not rich and have a very low income scraping by each month and shopping in Lidl is the reason I have a limited amount to spend on the system. I will just have to make do with what I can get working and as a result others may miss out on playing some of the better games and trying not to be to morbid, but when those private individuals who own the private preservation projects die there will be no copies or knowledgable people left to obtain or recover those games and they could be lost forever as a result.


StarshipUK
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by StarshipUK »

I got a few more working by adding the command to replace MDV with FLP.

These are the ones which are not working still:

3D Labyrinth
3D Slime
AJ Venture
Baron Rouge
Block Wall
FireBirds
Frogger
Froggy
Frogling
harry
Hungry Harry
King
Labyrinth
Masterblaster
Mission X
Night Nurse
Pacman
Pirate Island
QBall
QL Cavern
QlBert
QLTris PE
Quobbl
Skyburst
Sokoban
Space Paranoids
Space
Werner

Billy Bounder NO BOOT FILE!
Breakout NO BOOT FILE!
Diamonds NO BOOT FILE!
Hurry basic NO BOOT FILE!
M-Crunch NO BOOT FILE!
Mazes NO BOOT FILE!
Maze Basic NO BOOT FILE!
QBert NO BOOT FILE!
Space Pods NO BOOT FILE!
Starburst NO BOOT FILE!
Tunnel Panic NO BOOT FILE!

Have any of these been worked on to be fixed?


RWAP
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by RWAP »

StarshipUK wrote:I got a few more working by adding the command to replace MDV with FLP.

These are the ones which are not working still:

3D Labyrinth
3D Slime
AJ Venture
Baron Rouge
Block Wall
FireBirds
Frogger
Froggy
Frogling
harry
Hungry Harry
King
Labyrinth
Masterblaster
Mission X
Night Nurse
Pacman
Pirate Island
QBall
QL Cavern
QlBert
QLTris PE
Quobbl
Skyburst
Sokoban
Space Paranoids
Space
Werner

Billy Bounder NO BOOT FILE!
Breakout NO BOOT FILE!
Diamonds NO BOOT FILE!
Hurry basic NO BOOT FILE!
M-Crunch NO BOOT FILE!
Mazes NO BOOT FILE!
Maze Basic NO BOOT FILE!
QBert NO BOOT FILE!
Space Pods NO BOOT FILE!
Starburst NO BOOT FILE!
Tunnel Panic NO BOOT FILE!

Have any of these been worked on to be fixed?
A lot of these are public domain (or previously commercial titles which are now freeware) - and can be downloaded from Dilwyn's site - see
http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/games/
I would start by comparing your list with those on Dilwyn's site and reduce the list of non-working games.

Some of them I have never heard of and might be magazine type-ins, so whether they work could depend on whether they were typed in correctly !

Some are also restricted to 128K machines only - for example, at least one version of Frogger (which appeared as a QL World type-in game) will only work on a basic QL - even if you use RES_128 in Trump Card, it will not run!

The copyright position is much more complex than you seem to think. Copyright is protected by international criminal law - you can track down the majority of copyright holders if you put time and effort into it, but YES it takes time and effort. You may have missed the recent discussions on World of Spectrum, where their hosting company has demanded that they produce evidence of permissions given to World of Spectrum to host all of the software on there. Depending on the outcome of this, it could mean the whole of World of Spectrum is taken off line and the biggest Speccy resource is lost.

As for "personal preservation projects" - I had actually been working hard to preserve QL software, obtain permission to release them as freeware etc, but unfortunately, because of personal attacks on me for not simply uploading everything despite the copyright position, I have stopped any work on it. Only outsoft has stepped forward to run a similar project of his own.

There is plenty of room for others to step forward and fill the gaps - alas the number of people who have even bothered to try and find the copyright holders beyond myself, could be counted on one hand (probably 2 fingers).

For example, Eidersoft own the copyright to many QL games and are still contactable - however, NO-ONE (other than myself) has had the respect to contact them and would rather just give their software away without considering Eidersoft. The same happens with the software titles available through RWAP Software, Jochen Merz, Labochrome, Liberation Software. Software87, Talent, Pyramide, Arrakis and Sector Software et al - people knew we were selling them, we don't exactly hide anywhere, and yet people just think they can give the software away without even approaching me in a friendly manner and asking for permission.

Unfortunately, because of what happened, I, and other copyright holders are now much less likely to consent to any request to use the rights in a limited manner.


StarshipUK
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by StarshipUK »

The fact that you have not heard of some of these games just goes to show what a poor state software preservation and games information is in for this system.

Regarding frogger not working, it would be useful to have a website which lists all games known and unknown, and their limitations, rather then others having to try and figure it out for themselves.

So are you saying the hosting company owns the copyright for those games? To compare the Sinclair QL to the spectrum is unfair. The spectrum that sold over 5 million units and is still in production with the spectrum vega. The Sinclair QL was a commercial flop, sold around 150,000 units and is no longer commercially available. The best you can compare it with his Commodore +4, which in my opinion had better games than the Sinclair QL and that system has a website where all known games released the system of freely available to download. You might also want to compare it to something like the Thompson TO8, which also has a website where all games released for the system are available to download. If you are comparing it to the Spectrum ZX, you might want to compare it also to the Commodore 64, which has a project called gamebase where all known games are available to download freely.

I have also not been asking for full game downloads, but I've been asking for help and support with script files and ways to get games which are not running to run. This is something which most other communities would provide for free, as members of the those communities want to support their system and want it to be preserved and promoted. From the stories I have been told it is less about copyright and more about money and some people still being quite bitter about the fact the system flopped and they did not fully recouped the amount they spent out on the system during development. My personal opinion is that the stance whether copyright or money reasons is not doing the system and promoting it any favours. You said you would not make the games available in floppy disk image format due to lack of demand, but until they are made available you will not know what the demand is, and from what I can tell demand for some games in their current format on the sell my retro website has been very low with some games selling as few as one or two or three copies over several years. With your selling website selling modern storage mediums (most are SD based) for so many machines (ZX81, Spectrum ZX, Amstrad CPC, Sord M5) which I am sure you realise many people loading games on to these will not have original copies of those games I would have thought you would want to encourage the same forward-thinking movement for the QL rather than discourage it. For example the Sord M5 multicart (which is a fantastic device) I bought from sellmyretro is not SD based. All the games are programmed in the cart. You do not state that those who buy this must own original copies of the games on it, and the chance of everyone owning original carts for all those games is extremely low as some carts are very rare. Whats the difference between the Sord M5 games cart sold on your site (which I doubt has gained legal copyright permission to distribute the games on it) and the QL? Are you not worried that the owners of the Spectrum Vega could take you to court for selling ZX Spectrum SD Card devices which can play illegal games in the same way Nintendo took online shops to court for selling R4 devices? http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.c ... ds_illegal - if it really was about copyright I doubt you would allow the sale of these devices on your website.

You mention no one has contacted Eidersoft and using them in an example to say copyright owners of many games are still contactable - OK, I want to contact them regarding this so I did a google search. It took me to an article you wrote which says they are not contactable! Quote: "Unfortunately, although we have now traced the copyright holders for Eidersoft software, after some initial emails, they stopped responding which is a real shame." Bad example there mate.

I will just have to make do with what I've got for now. What a shame. I do not recommend this system for retro enthusiasts.


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