Changes to EU VAT rules from January 2015

Tell us about your other hobbies & none QL related items here :)
Post Reply
RWAP
RWAP Master
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Stone, United Kingdom
Contact:

Changes to EU VAT rules from January 2015

Post by RWAP »

I admit to having an interest in this topic, but basically changes to EU VAT rules could well have a major impact on our favourite hobby.

Up until this year, I have not had to worry too much about VAT as the turnover from my business has been below the UK VAT registration threshold.

For those who do not know, the EU brought in regulations from January 2015, that for all e-services (software downloads, fees on sellmyretro.com for example), when they are supplied to a consumer, then VAT has to be added based on the location of the purchaser. Despite calls from the UK government, they point blank refused to implement any form of threshold, meaning that if someone sells a bit of software which can be downloaded online for £1, then WHEREVER THE SELLER IS BASED IN THE WORLD, the seller needs to find out where the buyer is located and then account for VAT on that £1 at the rate applicable to the country where the buyer is located.

The rules are very complex, as you needed at least 2 pieces of non-conflicting information showing the location of the buyer - which is nigh impossible in this day and age where people use VPNs and Proxy servers for accessing the web, or may be on holiday in one country, living in a second country, but have a credit card issued by a third country. Thankfully the UK HMRC have extended an exception indefinitely, whereby small businesses can rely on the just the location provided by PayPal as the address of the buyer - although other countries have different attitudes to this.

From my point of view, as I do not offer any automated software downloads, to date, the only issue is over the fees on sellmyretro.com - luckily to date, the overseas sellers on that site have been businesses, and therefore outside of the regulations and so are charged according to UK VAT rules. However, I do need to keep my eye on this in case someone outside the UK decides to list some personal items for sale - at which point I need to decide what to do!!

So far it is a worry, but I am coping with it... :) However, more worryingly, is that Australia, Japan and South Korea are following suit, with the USA and Canada (at least) also looking to do something similar ( based on their local taxes).

HOWEVER, more worryingly is that from 2016, the EU plans to extend these rules to EVERYTHING SOLD ONLINE - which means that I will need to increase my prices to take account of the headache of extra administration and submitting quarterly VAT returns, and base my prices on having to pay the highest rate of tax charged in the EU (28% ?) as there is no online tool for checking the VAT rate for each country live and therefore no guarantee that I could show each buyer the correct charge for their country before they make payment.

One option would be to find local businesses in each country which would purchase the items from me as a business to business transaction and then sell in their own country - but that will only drive up prices further...

Many businesses have already decided to withdraw automated downloads of items, or simply block sales to other countries within the EU.

What I would ask is for everyone to contact their MEP and outline the potential impact that these rules will have on the retro computer market and demand that a threshold is set below which VAT will not have to be charged. The EU thinks this is only a UK problem as not many people are complaining from other countries!

There is in fact some rules in place at the moment for selling physical goods overseas, but they currently have a threshold whereby if total sales per year to each country do not exceed €35,000 (or €100,000 in some countries), then VAT does not have to be charged according to the buyer's location. It therefore seems sensible to continue with that same threshold for ALL ITEMS (including e-services and items sold online).

The EU has talked about introducing a threshold as part of the single digital market, but it is unclear (a) if and when that threshold will be introduced, (b) what level the threshold will be at and what it will be based on, and (c) what happens in the meantime for e-services sold by small businesses throughout Europe.


User avatar
NormanDunbar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2273
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Contact:

Re: Changes to EU VAT rules from January 2015

Post by NormanDunbar »

The EU is a chuffing nightmare of pathetic and stupid regulations. It has become just like Health & Safety or the various unions, it has left behind its usefulness and exists merely to further itself.

When we had a referendum, back in 1973 (I think!) we voted for a common market, not a European State. Look at how it forced through the last treaty changes - all it needed was one country to vote no, and the treaty was dead in the water. Ireland did exactly that but they had to have another referendum (and how many more I wonder?) until they got a yes vote!

At least they got a vote!

We might get one in the next few years, but it will probably be too late by then and nobody will be able to purchase anything from any other member of the "Common" market.

End rant.


Cheers,
Norm.


Why do they put lightning conductors on churches?
Author of Arduino Software Internals
Author of Arduino Interrupts

No longer on Twitter, find me on https://mastodon.scot/@NormanDunbar.
RWAP
RWAP Master
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Stone, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Changes to EU VAT rules from January 2015

Post by RWAP »

The trouble is that countries such as Australia and Japan have looked at what the EU has done and said "This is a great idea" and implemented their own version of the taxation for overseas services. USA and Canada are planning on following suit too.

Don't forget that the EU VAT rules apply to ANYONE supplying goods and services to someone in the EU !!


User avatar
Mr_Navigator
QL Fanatic
Posts: 782
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:17 pm
Location: UK, Essex
Contact:

Re: Changes to EU VAT rules from January 2015

Post by Mr_Navigator »

Facebook presence to help your cause RWAP, on this subject.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QLick here for the Back 2 the QL Blog http://backtotheql.blogspot.co.uk/
RWAP
RWAP Master
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Stone, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Changes to EU VAT rules from January 2015

Post by RWAP »

I am already a member of a couple of Facebook groups on this specific cause - the problem is that people need to contact their MEPs to show how it will impact them as consumers and business and ask their MEPs to ensure that a reasonable threshold is imposed for both e-services and physical goods as soon as possible.

The EU just says "this is a UK problem" because only businesses in the UK seem to be complaining!


User avatar
NormanDunbar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2273
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Contact:

Re: Changes to EU VAT rules from January 2015

Post by NormanDunbar »

Sadly, my mp is a farking Tory, and about as much use as a chocolate teapot. I've contacted him on important issues in the past, and got a right load of flim flam in return.

He's dishonest in the extreme. He says that he will vote in a particular way, but when you check up on him, he's followed the party whip, and voted otherwise.

You can tell when he's lying because his lips move. :(

Cheers,
Norm.


Why do they put lightning conductors on churches?
Author of Arduino Software Internals
Author of Arduino Interrupts

No longer on Twitter, find me on https://mastodon.scot/@NormanDunbar.
RWAP
RWAP Master
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Stone, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Changes to EU VAT rules from January 2015

Post by RWAP »

An MP can't do much - needs to be your MEP (Member of the European Parliament)!


User avatar
NormanDunbar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2273
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Contact:

Re: Changes to EU VAT rules from January 2015

Post by NormanDunbar »

Bloody auto correct! I typed MEP I got given MP.

Auto correct is my worst enema!


Why do they put lightning conductors on churches?
Author of Arduino Software Internals
Author of Arduino Interrupts

No longer on Twitter, find me on https://mastodon.scot/@NormanDunbar.
Post Reply