Possible Coldfire platform for modern QL?

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dex
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Possible Coldfire platform for modern QL?

Post by dex »

Maybe You are already familiar with the FireBee (Atari Coldfire project).
It is small hardware piece, with Coldfire 266 MHz processor, and many modern peripherals (see LINK).
Small and absolutely silent (with CF card and no fan).
Even it can run for two hours on small battery power!

I think, in case that Q60 will not be produced again, this is good, existing, already available, modern hardware ready to be transformed from Atari into a new QL.
No need to develop new hardware, just to use this one.
Of course it needs to re-program the Altera Cyclone III FPGA. To replace the Atari video with ZX801 graphical modes and possibly Aurora 256 color mode (maybe Q60 graphic modes).

It has CF card, SD card reader, IDE, SCSI, USB, floppy, serial, VGA output via DVI-I, ethernet, 48 kHz sound input and output, PS/2 keyboardand mouse, 512 MB RAM, 128 MB VRAM, ...
Too much, I think, not all of them will be used for a QL.

I thought deeply about possible problems:
1) can the work of 8049/Hermes be archieved on this hardware?
2) will there be any software compatibility issue, as Coldfire does not support all instructions in the 68k instruction set?
3) Anyone, who can create the hardware (ZX801 etc) for the FPGA?
4) the price is high.

What do You think about this?
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Re: Possible Coldfire platform for modern QL?

Post by tofro »

dex wrote:Maybe You are already familiar with the FireBee (Atari Coldfire project).
It is small hardware piece, with Coldfire 266 MHz processor, and many modern peripherals
Small and absolutely silent (with CF card and no fan).
Even it can run for two hours on small battery power!

I think, in case that Q60 will not be produced again, this is good, existing, already available, modern hardware ready to be transformed from Atari into a new QL.
No need to develop new hardware, just to use this one.
Of course it needs to re-program the Altera Cyclone III FPGA. To replace the Atari video with ZX801 graphical modes and possibly Aurora 256 color mode (maybe Q60 graphic modes).
Well, there's probably no need to emulate the QL video modes exactly - The HW is so entirely different to the QL that the OS needs to be modified substantially anyways - Once you do that you could (I would expect) emulate the QL video modes in OS Software. If the HW is close to what the Atari ST was then that should be easily possible.
dex wrote: I thought deeply about possible problems:
1) can the work of 8049/Hermes be archieved on this hardware?
No need to do that. Different keyboard, different serx_ ports. Q60 does not have 8049 emulation as well, but is still able to run SMSQ/E.
dex wrote: 2) will there be any software compatibility issue, as Coldfire does not support all instructions in the 68k instruction set?
Sure will, lots of. Although there is a free 68k emulation library available (http://www.microapl.co.uk/Porting/ColdF ... 8klib.html) there is a lot of OS rewrite to be expected. It's not only "some instructions missing", but instead "many instruction/adressing mode combinations missing" (That is. a lot of byte-/word-sized instructions have been discontinued, all of the BCD aritmetic is missing (probably not important) and our beloved dbra/dbcc loop instruction has been removed from the instruction set.) All of this has to be either removed from applications and OS or emulated. Even at 266MHz this could end up quite slow.
dex wrote: 3) Anyone, who can create the hardware (ZX801 etc) for the FPGA?
As said above, there's really no need to change the hardware. Just the OS and 68k emulation is a problem
dex wrote: 4) the price is high.
Check here: http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Free ... 3DAQ%3d%3d
Similar, but less than half the price. You'd need a PCI riser card plus a PCI VGA + PCI USB card. I have one of those on my desk right here gathering dust because I cannot find any free time to work on it.
I would not own it if I would think converting into a QL lookalike would be impossible. It's just a lot of work.

If anyone wants to try, there's a cheap one on eBay currently (not mine ;-)):
http://cgi.ebay.com/FREESCALE-M5474LITE ... 0445887427

Cheers,
tofro


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Mr_Navigator
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Re: Possible Coldfire platform for modern QL?

Post by Mr_Navigator »

Lots of answers to lots of points raised, but at the end of it is it possible?, an new QL system for less than £400?


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Re: Possible Coldfire platform for modern QL?

Post by davefilms »

:D
Hello... Greetings from the USA.
I like the idea of the FireBEE platform being used as a QL replacement option.. But...

I think a better bet is to support the efforts of the current offering from the Q40 / Q60 people. I have asked them for a quote for a new Q60.

As for the future...

I am willing to support the creation of a foundation (non-profit group) with the goal of creating a new SMSQ operating system on open hardware. I was thinking of the PowerPC or X86 Intel or AMD / VIA. The new SMSQ port will need to support the "classic QL" by emulation. The terminal scripting language should be SBasic sans line numbers and allow CLI. I am ready to start the paperwork for such a group. Can we get togather and do this?

The sterring group should be founded by the most active members here.


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Re: Possible Coldfire platform for modern QL?

Post by Mr_Navigator »

I am also willing to help in some small way


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Re: Possible Coldfire platform for modern QL?

Post by davefilms »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimig

This nano-itx Mini-Amiga motherboard could replace the QL if a new Minerva 198 Kick rom was made and the OS adapted for use on this board. Price... $177.00 / 133.00 UKD This is available from AmigaKit


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Re: Possible Coldfire platform for modern QL?

Post by RWAP »

The main problem we have with developing new hardware and platforms, is not the enthusiasm of the QL community, nor lack of funds, as Quanta, the user group are always willing to consider business plans and offer loan funding.

The problem is lack of people who are able to write new drivers for the hardware - I wonder whether QDOS Classic, which was designed to run on the standard Amiga would be an easier solution to get a QL operating system (be it not a very advanced one) to run on this sort of platform?

According to Peter Graf, the sources for Minerva are not complete, which has hindered him in adapting them for his own designs.

There is of course, the source code for SMSQ/e - the most advanced QL operating system. Although this is not strictly a free operating system, this could easily be adapted.

For those who are not too aware of what are seem as some to be licensing issues surrounding SMSQ/e, basically although the source code is freely obtainable, and can be compiled by anyone, the binaries cannot be freely distributed.

Suggested changes to the operating system have to be notified to the source code maintainer, so that if possible, they can be incorporated into the versions of SMSQ/e for other systems, and will then be made part of the official source code release.

Anyone can apply to become an authorised distributor of the binaries for SMSQ/e, although there are currently only 2 so far as I am aware (Darren Branagh and Jochen Merz).

There is also the possibility of creating bolt-on modules for SMSQ/e (as it is a modular operating system), so there would be nothing preventing you from supplying a bolt-on module to provide new drivers, for example.


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Re: Possible Coldfire platform for modern QL?

Post by davefilms »

I will have a look at this. I will see what I can do... SMSQ/e is the best solution. I casnnot see why HaikuOS and others can get a large following of programmers. Solutions brought about by students as a Google Summer of Code project.


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dex
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Re: Possible Coldfire platform for modern QL?

Post by dex »

We have tested Minimig (FPGA Amiga 500 clone) with "QDOS Classic" KickSTART ROM.
But this doesn't run.
According to tests in UAE, QDOS Classic ROM runs on Amigas with processor 68020 and higher, i.e., for QDOS on Amiga we need Amiga 1200 (or something like "AGA Minimig" with 68020 core).

The 68020 requirement is specific for QDOS Classic and Amiga only.


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dex
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Re: Possible Coldfire platform for modern QL?

Post by dex »

News - QDOS Classic (http://www.mswift.unisonplus.net/ql/files/QZ.zip) on the Minimig RUNS :D, if started with Amiga KickStart ROM.
It boots diirectly to QDOS Classic application in a second, no Amiga DOS is even visible.

So, with its VGA output Minimig solves the "monitor vs TV mode" problem, gives SD card storage, and together with ARM controller 50 MHz turbo.
And gives access to Amiga hardware (HW sprites, Paula sound) and its graphics modes.
On the other hand, it has only mouse, two joysticks and one serial connector. No parallel, no network.

Currently Minimigs are here to buy: https://acube-systemsbiz.serversicuro.i ... /6-minimig.
And files are here: http://www.mswift.unisonplus.net/ql/


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