Converting software from Q-emuLator to QLAY

[dilwyn]

Dilwyn, you could count an aliens hexadecimal fingers the number of times the dreaded zip explanation has been recounted

Yes, although in this particular case zip was more of a solution than a problem

[dilwyn]

For those interested - I managed to get QL Pawn up and running under QL2K.

It appears the last problem to surmount was the fact that when exporting files from the qxl.win file, qxlwin explorer has a bug in that it stripped the space from the end of one of the file names...

So I was on the right sort of track thinking it might have been a filename you couldn't see such as a nul name or space name used in the older protections and production toolkits, even though it was a s ace at the end of the filename rather than invisible file. Glad you got it sorted in the end

[dilwyn]

Dilwyn, you could count an aliens hexadecimal fingers the number of times the dreaded zip explanation has been recounted

So why the flip did the QL zip files not end up with a nice "qip" or "qlp" extension? Would have saved a lot of confusion...
'Tis strange how some retro computers end up with mostly only a small number of standard file formats and others end up with a much more complex mix of file formats
Did anyone ever try to set a universal standard for the QL?
Mark

Well, the way I look at it, no two QL/emulator systems work with the same type of hard disk format, for example: QLay and QL2K are different to QemuLator, which in turn is different to Qubide, which in turn is different to QPC and QXL, which in turn are different to Qubide, then QL-SD comes along with a different BDI format... so creating new standards is a pain in a fairly small community like ours.

Zip is pretty universal. Jonathan Hudson did a definitive job in porting zip and unzip over to allow us to be compatible with the rest of the world. The real problem, if there is one, is QL executables which somehow have to have the headers stored somewhere in a way that the majority of disk formats can't handle.

Until someone writes a universal and friendly file transfer software which understands:

QXL.WIN (QPC2, QXL, SMSQmulator and uQLx, partly QemuLator since it has no MAKE_DIR)
floppy disk
floppy disk images (QPC, SMSQmulator, MESS emulator IIRC)
QemuLator native file format
Qlay/Qlay 2/QL2K native file format (not the same as QemuLator)
SMSQmulator native file format - unsure if unique or same as, say QemuLator native)
QLay/QL2K/QemuLator MDV image files (I don't know if they are different to each other)
Q40/Q60 hard disks
Qubide
DOS/Windows/Linux/Mac/Atari
QL-SD / BDI
Level 1 and Level 2 filing systems
plus others I have no experience of - AmigaQDOS, QDOS Classic, ST-QL

and anything else I didn't think of, we have to be grateful for zip/unzip as so often it's proved to be the ONLY way for me to reliably transfer files between machine. And don't even get me started on RS232 transfers and Sernet etc!

But as Mr Navigator said, it's extremely frustrating that the info is readily available in most cases and has appeared regularly in print in recent years and people keep asking the same old questions which have been answered over and over on this subject. Partly a product of the internet age - people don't think ahead and prepare anymore, they react to events (my old boss used to call it "fire-fighting").

Tony Tebby once said when he was developing SMSQ/E that he felt he was ending up with a different version for every computer out there!

And back to topic, as to why no 'qip' or 'qlp' I think that would have created infinitely more confusion - I get enough queries about the differences between '.zip' and '_zip' as it is! The overwhelming majority of Quanta Helpline questions I answer are the same old subjects:

zip
file transfer
quill

(Believe it or not).

</rant after upsetting Mark>

[Dave]

So, how do you zip files on a QL, again?

[Dave]

Since we'll be releasing a new QubIDE-compatible IDE interface soon, I will endeavor to release detailed information on the file format QubIDE uses. I don't think this has been released before.

[dilwyn]

So, how do you zip files on a QL, again?

Well, let's see, you send them all to Texas, and...

[dilwyn]

Since we'll be releasing a new QubIDE-compatible IDE interface soon, I will endeavor to release detailed information on the file format QubIDE uses. I don't think this has been released before.

Great. Will the Qubide 2 (or whatever you call it) be the same file format as original Qubide?

BTW, I should have added the following to the list of hard disk file formats, as I don't know if they're compatible with anything else:

Miracle hard disk
Rebel hard disk (Qubide format was derived from it, but don't know if the same)
Falkenberg hard disks

[Mr_Navigator]

Dilwyn, you could count an aliens hexadecimal fingers the number of times the dreaded zip explanation has been recounted

Yes, although in this particular case zip was more of a solution than a problem

yes very true

[tofro]

Gents,

raving for a unified file system format for the QL doesn't actually make a lot of sense - Emulators, "legacy" old and slow hardware and new hardware all have different requirements and obviously quite some reasoning why they use this or that filesy<stem format. Look around: There's no OS in the world that uses exaclty one format: MacOS X has quite a number of them, Windows does and Linux has more than you would ever want to count - And no-one seems to have any concern about it.

And really - Once you get to grips with zip and unzip - You got your universal exchange format. What's wrong with that? We even got very nice tools like ACP that make pack and unpack as easy as a few mouse clicks.

Regards,
Tobias

[Dave]

The flip side, is those other OS do a much better job of making the file format differences transparent. When you consider that the QL came first, and that it did not get traction in the marketplace so didn't set any standards, it's easy to see how we ended here.

All it would take is a concerted effort to have provision in SMSQ/E and Minerva to check the position of data space in executables, then repositioning it in one standard place, and then we wouldn't have a problem.

Especially because it's such a trivial problem, but it causes such severe problems for returning users when they are least tolerant to challenges.