Sinclair Retro BBS online!

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Outsoft
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Re: Sinclair Retro BBS online!

Postby Outsoft » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:31 am

janbredenbeek wrote:
Outsoft wrote:Jan on real QL we need that can work perfectly too with colours, text, etc.

is compatible too?

The blue become BLACK, seems that something is wrong on 4 colour mode ;)

The old version changed blue to red to avoid that problem.
But on QPC2 this is undesirable since it can handle the full 8 (and even more) colours in hi-res mode.
You can turn off colour mode by the way. Maybe I should add an extra option '4 colour mode'?

later, Jan.


yes dear, thanks!

So we can use it on Real QL too ;)

There are a little bugs on ANSI characters showing but I think that is because QL TERM don't use the "Screening" that instead QTPI us it (sometimes more than useful).

Yesterday I've tested well on QPC2 and was very stable, great job!


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Re: Sinclair Retro BBS online!

Postby Outsoft » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:34 am

janbredenbeek wrote:
Outsoft wrote:Jan on real QL we need that can work perfectly too with colours, text, etc.

is compatible too?

The blue become BLACK, seems that something is wrong on 4 colour mode ;)

The old version changed blue to red to avoid that problem.
But on QPC2 this is undesirable since it can handle the full 8 (and even more) colours in hi-res mode.
You can turn off colour mode by the way. Maybe I should add an extra option '4 colour mode'?

later, Jan.


I've a strange problem on my REAL QL (ITALIAN + HERMES): after 30 minutes of SERIAL + TCP/SER connection the SER2 start to send millions of chacters (or receive it too much) and it totally CRASH.

ALso If I turn off and turn on...the QL always try to send some bytes on the SER2.

Seems that the TCP connection (or the Hayes emulation) still not work so good on QL terminal programs.

I've tested also 2 different serial cables, are not them ;)

Can you do a QL TERM patch for better control of the handshake / buffering / flow?

I mean always in the REAL QL HW.

Thanks.


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janbredenbeek
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Re: Sinclair Retro BBS online!

Postby janbredenbeek » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:55 pm

Outsoft wrote:
I've a strange problem on my REAL QL (ITALIAN + HERMES): after 30 minutes of SERIAL + TCP/SER connection the SER2 start to send millions of chacters (or receive it too much) and it totally CRASH.

ALso If I turn off and turn on...the QL always try to send some bytes on the SER2.

Seems that the TCP connection (or the Hayes emulation) still not work so good on QL terminal programs.

I've tested also 2 different serial cables, are not them ;)

Can you do a QL TERM patch for better control of the handshake / buffering / flow?

I mean always in the REAL QL HW.

QLTerm was written before Hermes came along so always had to do better buffering than the original SER-ports did ;) .
For instance there is a process that constantly reads the SER port and puts the data in a larger buffer (8K instead of 80 bytes) so the SER-port doesn't overrun, which had dire consequences on non-Hermes QLs (in fact you had to reset the whole QL to make the port usable again!). Also it does XON/XOFF handshaking.
But if you use a null modem cable you should never get overruns if the handshake lines on your cable are wired correctly (i.e. DTR and CTS connected to RTS/CTS on the other end). This is documented extensively in the manuals of QLTerm and QTPI (see 'Serial wiring').

As for the crash problem, I have to test this on a real QL (which should not be too difficult, I only have to prepare a null-modem cable to my BBS PC).

later, Jan.


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Re: Sinclair Retro BBS online!

Postby Outsoft » Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:02 pm

janbredenbeek wrote:
Outsoft wrote:
I've a strange problem on my REAL QL (ITALIAN + HERMES): after 30 minutes of SERIAL + TCP/SER connection the SER2 start to send millions of chacters (or receive it too much) and it totally CRASH.

ALso If I turn off and turn on...the QL always try to send some bytes on the SER2.

Seems that the TCP connection (or the Hayes emulation) still not work so good on QL terminal programs.

I've tested also 2 different serial cables, are not them ;)

Can you do a QL TERM patch for better control of the handshake / buffering / flow?

I mean always in the REAL QL HW.

QLTerm was written before Hermes came along so always had to do better buffering than the original SER-ports did ;) .
For instance there is a process that constantly reads the SER port and puts the data in a larger buffer (8K instead of 80 bytes) so the SER-port doesn't overrun, which had dire consequences on non-Hermes QLs (in fact you had to reset the whole QL to make the port usable again!). Also it does XON/XOFF handshaking.
But if you use a null modem cable you should never get overruns if the handshake lines on your cable are wired correctly (i.e. DTR and CTS connected to RTS/CTS on the other end). This is documented extensively in the manuals of QLTerm and QTPI (see 'Serial wiring').

As for the crash problem, I have to test this on a real QL (which should not be too difficult, I only have to prepare a null-modem cable to my BBS PC).

later, Jan.


well yes...I know it very well but a Friend that have hermes too send me his cable and here with my QL...it crash exactly like mine too.

So the cable is absolutely ok dear.

I thinks is my Italian QL that doesn't work correctly with the Hermes I thing.

If you really can modify your QL TERM for better performance on HERMES it will be very useful.

QTPI that detect the HERMES...have the same problem :-(


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Re: Sinclair Retro BBS online!

Postby janbredenbeek » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:22 pm

Outsoft wrote:well yes...I know it very well but a Friend that have hermes too send me his cable and here with my QL...it crash exactly like mine too.

So the cable is absolutely ok dear.

I thinks is my Italian QL that doesn't work correctly with the Hermes I thing.

If you really can modify your QL TERM for better performance on HERMES it will be very useful.

QTPI that detect the HERMES...have the same problem :-(

Oops I should have been more clear about that... QLTerm does have Hermes support from v2.32, which means extra 19200 and 1200/75 split speed. Apart from that the code is already optimised.
Does the problem occur also at lower speeds or just at 19200?
I'm aware that there are cables around which have only TxD and RxD wired, not DTR and CTS. The one supplied with SERmouse is one of them as I just found out...

Later, Jan.


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Re: Sinclair Retro BBS online!

Postby Outsoft » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:55 pm

janbredenbeek wrote:
Outsoft wrote:well yes...I know it very well but a Friend that have hermes too send me his cable and here with my QL...it crash exactly like mine too.

So the cable is absolutely ok dear.

I thinks is my Italian QL that doesn't work correctly with the Hermes I thing.

If you really can modify your QL TERM for better performance on HERMES it will be very useful.

QTPI that detect the HERMES...have the same problem :-(

Oops I should have been more clear about that... QLTerm does have Hermes support from v2.32, which means extra 19200 and 1200/75 split speed. Apart from that the code is already optimised.
Does the problem occur also at lower speeds or just at 19200?
I'm aware that there are cables around which have only TxD and RxD wired, not DTR and CTS. The one supplied with SERmouse is one of them as I just found out...

Later, Jan.


Ehm...you make me in doubt...but why at my friend side no problems?

Well yes...all speed cause problems (2400/9600/19200).

SERmouse...If I can find one...I can test it too ;)

It will be nice test one of your cables (or make one identical).

Let me know, thanks.

P.S.: yes your QL TERM was one of the first I've tested and works with the Hermes.

P.S.S.: there will be another thing that we can do for block this overflow of data?


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Re: Sinclair Retro BBS online!

Postby janbredenbeek » Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:38 pm

Outsoft wrote:Ehm...you make me in doubt...but why at my friend side no problems?

Well yes...all speed cause problems (2400/9600/19200).

SERmouse...If I can find one...I can test it too ;)

It will be nice test one of your cables (or make one identical).

Let me know, thanks.

P.S.: yes your QL TERM was one of the first I've tested and works with the Hermes.

P.S.S.: there will be another thing that we can do for block this overflow of data?

Check the handshake lines (pin 4 and 5 on the QL connectors, the wiring to DB9/DB25 is explained in the QTPI manual). Even the Hermes manual clearly states that they must be properly connected.
I'm not sure about how the serial ports on Italian QLs are laid out. AFAIK the German QLs had DB9 connectors if I'm correct? Original QL's from UK had special connectors which look a bit like RJ45 but with the clip on the side. They are probably hard to get at now, thankfully I found two of them in my attic which haven't been touched for 20 years :D .
If your system crashes and your friend's doesn't, this may be caused by a hardware problem. Try testing with another QL if possible.

later, Jan.


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Re: Sinclair Retro BBS online!

Postby Derek_Stewart » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:07 pm

Hi,

If the serial cable is okay then there maybe a hardware problem. The QL uses a Texas Instruments 1488 for serial port transmission and a 1489 for receiving. Maybe the 1488 is not working correctly.

To quote Tony Firshman's Trouble Shooting Guide:

SERIAL PORTS. If -12v and +12v lines OK, then problem usually lack of
outgoing RS232. Try the 2x33k -12v pull up to 19/21 of 8302. Illogical
I know but it DOES cure the problem very often. Similarily open network
sockets (centre pin not making contact when plug removed) have been known
to affect serial ports. These must be some internal effects in the 8302.
Failing this, remove IC25 (1488) and replace in socket.
I remove using specialist hot air gun, but Black & Decker electric paint
stripper used CAREFULLY will work. Direct AWAY from plastic parts and don't
overheat. Lever off IC ONLY when solder is fully melted.
Then try different combinations of 8302/1488. I find some 8302s output less
than 2v to pin 2 of 1488 - should be 2.5 or so I am told.

Note on issue 6 boards the HAL should be socketed and swapped as well. The
incoming data is buffered via this (in place of IC27 on issue 5 boards).
YES - the official circuit diagram IS wrong!


Regards,

Derek
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Outsoft
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Re: Sinclair Retro BBS online!

Postby Outsoft » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:09 pm

janbredenbeek wrote:
Outsoft wrote:Ehm...you make me in doubt...but why at my friend side no problems?

Well yes...all speed cause problems (2400/9600/19200).

SERmouse...If I can find one...I can test it too ;)

It will be nice test one of your cables (or make one identical).

Let me know, thanks.

P.S.: yes your QL TERM was one of the first I've tested and works with the Hermes.

P.S.S.: there will be another thing that we can do for block this overflow of data?

Check the handshake lines (pin 4 and 5 on the QL connectors, the wiring to DB9/DB25 is explained in the QTPI manual). Even the Hermes manual clearly states that they must be properly connected.
I'm not sure about how the serial ports on Italian QLs are laid out. AFAIK the German QLs had DB9 connectors if I'm correct? Original QL's from UK had special connectors which look a bit like RJ45 but with the clip on the side. They are probably hard to get at now, thankfully I found two of them in my attic which haven't been touched for 20 years :D .
If your system crashes and your friend's doesn't, this may be caused by a hardware problem. Try testing with another QL if possible.

later, Jan.


Well the italian have the same "BT" plugs as the UK one.

The German and the USA models have DB9 serial ports right ;)


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Re: Sinclair Retro BBS online!

Postby Outsoft » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:12 pm

Derek_Stewart wrote:Hi,

If the serial cable is okay then there maybe a hardware problem. The QL uses a Texas Instruments 1488 for serial port transmission and a 1489 for receiving. Maybe the 1488 is not working correctly.

To quote Tony Firshman's Trouble Shooting Guide:

SERIAL PORTS. If -12v and +12v lines OK, then problem usually lack of
outgoing RS232. Try the 2x33k -12v pull up to 19/21 of 8302. Illogical
I know but it DOES cure the problem very often. Similarily open network
sockets (centre pin not making contact when plug removed) have been known
to affect serial ports. These must be some internal effects in the 8302.
Failing this, remove IC25 (1488) and replace in socket.
I remove using specialist hot air gun, but Black & Decker electric paint
stripper used CAREFULLY will work. Direct AWAY from plastic parts and don't
overheat. Lever off IC ONLY when solder is fully melted.
Then try different combinations of 8302/1488. I find some 8302s output less
than 2v to pin 2 of 1488 - should be 2.5 or so I am told.

Note on issue 6 boards the HAL should be socketed and swapped as well. The
incoming data is buffered via this (in place of IC27 on issue 5 boards).
YES - the official circuit diagram IS wrong!


Finally a solution, thanks Derek!!!

I think my QL is affecting by this problem.

I've buyed a UK QL so I will test the serial port on it.

Next I can send to you my Italian QL and then you can check that chip If is ok or not.

Thanks a lot!!!

--Simon



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